metaladdict123

metaladdict123 wrote on Dec 10th, 2009 at 4:57pm : Your final words.

Getting a little touchy ;P

I've not ignored anything you've said, and I understand that a lot of the stuff we have talked about has essentially been the same, but the terminology etc. we use is different. I've moved from viewing scales as shapes, I just see notes and intervals. For me this is more beneficial as there is no chance of confusing one scale for another because of labeling different shapes by different names.

Anyhow, I've enjoyed our discussion. I hope you have too.

Mark

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i never said that the theory of intervals related to the shapes which give you an extended scale, i said it related when you are using a different scale in the same key.
the shapes apply when you want to create interest through slides and bends etc
maybe next time you should actually read what i have said

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I know you probably won't, but have a read of these:

Mode sticky
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.ph p? t=1042392

Ultimate Guide to Guitar. Diatonic mode theory
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_t o/ the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_iv_1_scales_- _diatonic_ modes_in_theory.html

Ultimate Guide to Guitar. Diatonic mode practice
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_t o/the_ultimate_guide_to_guitar_chapter_iv_2_scales _-_diatoni c_modes_in_practice.html

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[quote]yes its still the shape of these scales but the root note thirds and fifths are obviously arranged in terms of the key e.g c as the root, maybe i should have said you need to keep the value of the notes the same but this does not mean you cant use the a natural minor shape you just have remember where the intervals are in realtion to what key you are in.[\quote]

And here is where we've got all confused. You are talking about shapes, I'm talking about scales and modes. You were basically saying (for example) you can use an F dorian shape over an Eb progression. Just because you call it that shape doesn't mean you are playing modally. Scales and modes are not shapes. Scales and modes exist outside of the guitar, they are music theory. Shapes are just that, shapes.

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in C major the relative minor would be A natural minor, G mixolydian would also contain the same notes, D dorian would also contain the same notes, E phrigian would also count because they all contain the same fukcing notes. How is that wrong

That statement is not wrong outside of context, but like I said the progression resolves to Eb, so it is in Eb. There is nothing remotely modal about that progression.

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You don't seem to understand that scales are not shapes.

Your original post:

i dont know any songs but yes the modal suggestion but you would have to be C natural minor i think in the key of Eb and Bb mixolydian, and it is F dorian because it contains the same notes as the D# or Eb major.

How can C natural minor be in the key of Eb and Bb mixolydian? They are three different scales. Yes, I concur, they have the same key signature, but they are all constructed differently and have a different sound to them. So if you are playing in C minor, you are playing in C minor. End of.
And as for it being in F dorian. There is no way in hell that progression is in F dorian because the progression will resolve strongest to the Eb because Eb is the relative major.

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really i think your getting mixed up, just think why would you need to flatten notes if they are all the same. A minor is a different scale if you target the a as a root note if you target the C as the root its a mode of the C major.

They are not the same. A minor is derived from the A major scale. the A major scale is A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#. If you flatten the 3rd, 6th and 7th scale degree you now have A, B, C, D, E, F, G which is the A natural minor scale. That last sentence makes no sense at all. A minor is a different scale to the C major scale fullstop. Targeting the root stops it being A anything, it becomes C major and therefore is constructed differently.

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this does not relate to moving C major to A minor as you are technically not changing the notes you are using the same notes but from a different starting point.

You are looking at this as A minor is the relative minor of the C major scale. This is correct, but the A minor scale will be derived from the A major scale, not the C major scale. If you take a progression in C major and play the scale over the top from the position starting at C on the 8th fret of the low E, you are playing in C maj. If you play the same notes, but start from the A on the 5th fret of the low E you are still playing in C major. Only if you adapt the progression to resolve to an Am chord will you be playing in A minor.

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metaladdict123 wrote on Dec 7th, 2009 at 10:51pm : yes the intervals they are the intervals for a minor and c major, but those intervals apply when you are the scale in the same postion. for example c major has 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and then the C minor you would have to flatten the 3rd and so on.

The natural minor scale (if fact most scales in western theory) are derived from the major scale. You are correct that C minor is C major with flattened 3rd, 6th and 7th scale degrees. But positions do not come into it. The intervals for any particular scale are the same across the entire fretboard.

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but your still suggesting that i was talking about changing the key, im changing the shape but keeping the note values the same. e.g what notes to land on what to exclude that all still keep me in the key of C. The intervals are only different if you apply it to the same key e.g c major will have different intervals to c dorian but c major and the a minor shape will have the same intervals but in a different place

my previous post was in response to this. I just forgot to quote it.

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Shapes have nothing to do with modes. Shapes just happen to be a helpful guide to finding the notes you want on the fretboard.

C major has the intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

A minor has the intervals 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7b

So not the same.

You are basically confusing shapes with modes\scales etc. Don't worry, my teacher taught me this way and I thought like you for a long time. There is still time for you to learn it correctly.

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yes of course you have to resolve back to more stable notes such as the root, and of course you have to consider the actual notes in the chords of the progression. I was talking about modes in generall not nessecarily targeted at the progression

To play modally you require a progression that resolves to the unstable root of the the mode being played because it will try to resolve to the stable root of the relative major. The progression is a very important factor in playing modally so when talking about modes in general the progression is still a factor.

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metaladdict123 wrote on Dec 5th, 2009 at 1:03am : stuff about modes

The notes in C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A aeolian and B locrian are the same, yes. However the intervals that make up those scales are different. Therefore they are different. Most modes are very unstable and will try to resolve back to their relative major so to use a mode you require a progression that resolves to the tonic of the mode and highlights the note that makes the mode different from the others. For example the dorian mode's is its natural 6th.

So for example a I IV V progression in the key of C (C maj, F maj, G maj) resolves very strongly to the C maj. Therefore you can only play over it in C, any other notes are accidentals.

Like I said. Read the sticky.

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metaladdict123 wrote on Nov 29th, 2009 at 8:44pm : you obviously didnt read what i said then i said they all contain the same notes you just have to treat them differently as to where the root is. the shape can be related to the modes but all the notes are the same i also said it depended on the key, the key defines what chords and therefore what scales traids etc you can use the key is the most important, obviously you didnt see the part where i said if you are in a specific key, idiot

*yawn*
i don't care

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metaladdict123 wrote on Dec 2nd, 2009 at 10:40pm : hi im not sure if we have actually talked before despite being on your friends list, anyway how are you

i;m good, got lots of studying to do, yet here i am on UG

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okay thanks for the tip i'll improve my arguments next time bro

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i don't know if you're referring to phoenix wright or the wright brothers but i'm pretty sure you're neither of those

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you're a total toolbox bro

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metaladdict123 wrote on Oct 2nd, 2009 at 3:23pm : dont like mock the week ehhhhh, why rant on a thread over a programme you dont even like. dumbass

Well I wouldn't exactly rant over something I did like, would I dipshit? I'm sorry 'metaladdict123' if I have offended you but for every person in a thread that likes something on that subject there will be at least 3 who completely disagree. It's the cycle of life... or was that excrement? I always get those two mixed up, anyway, yeah, Mock The Week is pretty shit isn't it.

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haha yes.. yes it is

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